Thank you for this tribute to these students. It takes me back to the 1960s when I was one of the ones protesting, on campus and in the streets of Los Angeles and San Francisco. A whole generation is being radicalized because those in power simply do not understand that the narrative has been taken from them and turned into a new one rooted in justice for all, not privilege for some.
The other book to read is also by Carolyn Elkins, "Legacy of Violence", outlining in detail how the British Empire acted with unmeasured brutality versus its coloinial subjects. Most pertinently it describes the roile of ex Black and Tan policemen in suppressing the late 1930's Arab uprising, with the help of zionist auxiliaries. Orde Charles Wingate was the person most responsible for British brutal tactics, and on his death Israelis paid tribute to him as the father of IDF tactics.
Well, if anyone is still reading this, my opinions are pretty obvious. I’ll say one thing: the denial of the October 7th atrocities undermines the legitimacy of the Gaza protests.
I am unsure, Joy, that you understand my position; and I am not sure I understand yours. You accuse me of ‘both-sides-ism’; clearly a category you have with specific implications. I would not say that both sides are in some sense equal in this conflict; clearly the Palestinians have been occupied illegitimately, and Israel has acted egregiously and in bad faith towards them. That does not change the fact that the October 7th attack was far outside the bounds of human behaviour acceptable in any context. I don’t know if you accept the reality of the actions; there is a strong stream of denialism, but as far as I can see the claims of rape and torture are true.
I do not accept the calculations of equivalence or lack thereof; whether these actions were ‘more’ or ‘less’ appalling that the mass destruction wrought by the Israelis. They are both monstrous, and nether is justifiable. They are both comprehensible, in the sense that they are both the result of accumulated generational trauma; trauma begets atrocity, and this does in no way excuse it.
None of this changes my belief that the situation with Israel’s occupation of Palestine is wrong; and, any ideas any of us have about what ‘should’ be done comes to grief on the reality of the extreme and entrenched attitudes; the only effect of atrocities on either side, regardless of our ideas about ‘justice’, will be to make matters even worse. Support Palestine, but condemn the atrocities! My belief is that this is the only stance one can take without compromising one’s humanity.
Finally, thanks again for the book references; I always knew the Israeli occupation was not legitimate, and now I am much more knowledgeable about it. And, nothing in these books tells me it is acceptable to…well, I won’t mention details, you either know them or choose not to.
I’ll say one more thing though: comparing the Oct 7th atrocities to the actions of the Israeli army: they are really incommensurable. In terms of numbers, the Israeli actions are orders of magnitude worse. In terms of total suffering, much worse. But in terms of inhuman sadistic brutality?
Please, if in any response to this you are inclined to use the word ‘colonial’—don’t. That is NOT the point.
Students at Columbia are suing their university administration. They are being represented by Palestine Legal. We can support them at: palestinelegal.org/donate
passing this along to Fakebook.. I want people to know about your writing and activities!! Love you, Richard for fighting the Good Fight! your friend, always - Cassie
I’m sorry, but I have to say I find this article very one-sided. I read a great many examples of egregious actions and statements by protesting students against Jews and Israel which cross way over the line, and I read protestations of peaceful intent by protestors which appear quite disingenuous. I find that both sides have committed appalling acts upon each other, and both sides have clung to ideologies which seriously distort reality. The absolutism on both sides is terrible to hear; people who so strongly believe themselves to be wholly and absolutely in the right, ready to treat the other side as inhuman. Shame on you, Mr. Eskow, for being someone with full access to information and yet who picks and chooses, finds excuses to invalidate the side he chooses to disagree with. And please note I am not picking a side; there are no ‘right sides’ in this conflict.
This is consistent with my experience. Thank you!
Great reporting. thank you!
Thank you for this tribute to these students. It takes me back to the 1960s when I was one of the ones protesting, on campus and in the streets of Los Angeles and San Francisco. A whole generation is being radicalized because those in power simply do not understand that the narrative has been taken from them and turned into a new one rooted in justice for all, not privilege for some.
One love!
The other book to read is also by Carolyn Elkins, "Legacy of Violence", outlining in detail how the British Empire acted with unmeasured brutality versus its coloinial subjects. Most pertinently it describes the roile of ex Black and Tan policemen in suppressing the late 1930's Arab uprising, with the help of zionist auxiliaries. Orde Charles Wingate was the person most responsible for British brutal tactics, and on his death Israelis paid tribute to him as the father of IDF tactics.
Well, if anyone is still reading this, my opinions are pretty obvious. I’ll say one thing: the denial of the October 7th atrocities undermines the legitimacy of the Gaza protests.
I am unsure, Joy, that you understand my position; and I am not sure I understand yours. You accuse me of ‘both-sides-ism’; clearly a category you have with specific implications. I would not say that both sides are in some sense equal in this conflict; clearly the Palestinians have been occupied illegitimately, and Israel has acted egregiously and in bad faith towards them. That does not change the fact that the October 7th attack was far outside the bounds of human behaviour acceptable in any context. I don’t know if you accept the reality of the actions; there is a strong stream of denialism, but as far as I can see the claims of rape and torture are true.
I do not accept the calculations of equivalence or lack thereof; whether these actions were ‘more’ or ‘less’ appalling that the mass destruction wrought by the Israelis. They are both monstrous, and nether is justifiable. They are both comprehensible, in the sense that they are both the result of accumulated generational trauma; trauma begets atrocity, and this does in no way excuse it.
None of this changes my belief that the situation with Israel’s occupation of Palestine is wrong; and, any ideas any of us have about what ‘should’ be done comes to grief on the reality of the extreme and entrenched attitudes; the only effect of atrocities on either side, regardless of our ideas about ‘justice’, will be to make matters even worse. Support Palestine, but condemn the atrocities! My belief is that this is the only stance one can take without compromising one’s humanity.
Finally, thanks again for the book references; I always knew the Israeli occupation was not legitimate, and now I am much more knowledgeable about it. And, nothing in these books tells me it is acceptable to…well, I won’t mention details, you either know them or choose not to.
I’ll say one more thing though: comparing the Oct 7th atrocities to the actions of the Israeli army: they are really incommensurable. In terms of numbers, the Israeli actions are orders of magnitude worse. In terms of total suffering, much worse. But in terms of inhuman sadistic brutality?
Please, if in any response to this you are inclined to use the word ‘colonial’—don’t. That is NOT the point.
Students at Columbia are suing their university administration. They are being represented by Palestine Legal. We can support them at: palestinelegal.org/donate
passing this along to Fakebook.. I want people to know about your writing and activities!! Love you, Richard for fighting the Good Fight! your friend, always - Cassie
I’m sorry, but I have to say I find this article very one-sided. I read a great many examples of egregious actions and statements by protesting students against Jews and Israel which cross way over the line, and I read protestations of peaceful intent by protestors which appear quite disingenuous. I find that both sides have committed appalling acts upon each other, and both sides have clung to ideologies which seriously distort reality. The absolutism on both sides is terrible to hear; people who so strongly believe themselves to be wholly and absolutely in the right, ready to treat the other side as inhuman. Shame on you, Mr. Eskow, for being someone with full access to information and yet who picks and chooses, finds excuses to invalidate the side he chooses to disagree with. And please note I am not picking a side; there are no ‘right sides’ in this conflict.